For the record, Granite, I'm merely posting your comment for reference. The first post was too old to make commenting on it useful. I didn't realize that I was moderating comments on posts older than 10 days and, silly me, forgot to enter my email address so I'd get a notification when moderation was needed.
So here is the beginning of this.
Jordan
Didn't even come back here to check on this.
I do know the Halo story. I am aware of the storyline that unfolds in the campaign, and I've listened to I Love Bees multiple times. I haven't visited the novels/graphic novels/etc. because I:
a) Don't care enough to waste money on that stuff regardless of franchise
b) Rarely consider it to be canon, since it only takes one game developer to sweep all the sidestory information into oblivion.
Also, how are we debating the story? You cannot debate a piece of fiction. We're talking about which stories we prefer...and frankly, the Halo story doesn't shine in my eyes.
And as for Samus,
Samus is not a supersoldier. Samus is a woman in a technologically advanced space suit given to her by an alien race who took her in after her parents were slaughtered by an evil race known to humanity as Space Pirates (presumably not what their race is actually called...they don't speak English though, so the equivalent is probably gutteral noises and screeches).
Also, Samus Aran is unique because she was the first female video game heroine. And she isn't your typical sexual tension bound woman from all other video games. She operates alone, lives in solitude, and forms no emotional attachments. She is more badass than some male video game leads.
Don't ever speak ill of Samus Aran. Metroid's story is awesome, and the world is fantastic (it is like playing Myst with a gun).
@Liam
I'm still convinced that the story in Half-Life is much better. The plight of humanity seems much more real to me, because instead of it happening in the far distant future where our technology kicks ass and we have energy shields and all that, it takes place in an era reasonably close to the present, where mankind has been forced into the role of inferior race and is living in squallor in the derelict buildings of their once glorious civilization.
Also, I've always liked the fact that Gordon Freeman doesn't talk. It makes it so that he doesn't say anything stupid that you can laugh at later (no Masters of Unlocking, Jill Sandwiches or Doing Barrel Rolls in this game). Plus, it increases the immersion for me (especially because my name rhymes with Gordon, I can be delusional and put myself in his shoes).
I've always preferred the gritty dystopian future to the flashy technological future. It just doesn't seem like humanity will constantly be on an upward rise technologically. At some point, I cannot help but wonder if we'll do something stupid, screw something up, and kill ourselves. Half-Life appeals to me story-wise because of all future alien invasions, it is the road less travelled. Seldom do you see alien overlords restricting reproduction of humans in some sort of bizarre eugenics project from space.
Halo
You say you like the story but buying into extra story (ie novels) is a waste of money? How does that even make sense?
These novels are cannon. Bungie, the games creator says its cannon. I'm pretty sure Microsoft owns most of the rights to the game, so they would have to be pretty stupid to fuck up the story. Granted, 'Ensemble Studios' is making 'Halo Wars' for Microsoft, but they have worked fairly closely with Bungie to make sure the story is still cannon. If Microsoft was to produce a game that wasn't in Bungie's Halo cannon, there would be millions of pissed off fans and the game would likely to be a huge flop. I don't think Microsoft is that stupid.
I never did speak ill of Samus. I love Metroid & am currently trying to get my hand on the SNES Metroid game.
Lets go through Halo. John is a six year old child, one of 150 who have been carefully selected for a top secret ONI (Office of Navel Intelligence) project. These children are replaced with flash clones, which quickly die due to organ failure (a drawback of flash cloning). From these 150 kids, 75 will get the chance to become a Spartan. These children are trained, physically & mentally, and pushed beyond the limits of normal adults.
On the night they are stolen from their homes, these 6 year-olds are asked parachute out of a drop ship in the pitch black of night. As their training progresses, they go up against UNSC marines who literally beat them if they get captured. They receive biological augmentations when they are about 15 (I think) to increase their strength, speed, vision, etc. where only about half of them survive. On their first real mission, they don't have any special armor yet proceed to break into a secret insurrection base a kidnap the rebel commander.
This Spartan project was created to fight the human rebellion, but they were later refocused to fight the Covenant after first contact. Then comes the armor, then the shields.... (PS. John's old home planet gets glassed by the alien bastards). We haven't even got into the Covenant back story.
So that's a quick summery of the Halo premise. There is a great back story like with our pal Samus. And she isn't the first female video game heroine. I would like to point out that Mrs. Pac-man was probably the first; maybe not as bad-ass, but first. I would argue that Chiefy is more bad-ass than Samus (who would be a close second). But what does sex have to do with being bad-ass, Granite? Just because Samus is female, she gets extra points when she does the same tasks?
Master Chief is also pretty emotion-less, but not completely. From Super Metroid, Samus never has a chance to form relations. IMO, the emotional relations MC has helps build character and makes the game feel more alive; after all, he still is human. He doesn't talk in-game, but in cut scenes he speaks as not too look like a vegetable.
No Jordan, we can't debate story. We can however, express opinions & highlight key elements. I like Metroid (only played SNES but love it), HL, and Halo. If the latter doesn't shine in your eyes, well frankly, that's your loss.
Half Life 2
I'm sorry Granite, but I side with Liam on this one. I love the HL series, but what you say doesn't entirely make sense to me. 500 years in the future is too far, and space travel & energy shields (not on UNSC space ships) is too much? How do you explain the gravity gun, or the portals? HL takes place much closer to our time and these things are far more unrealistic.
HL2 is still a great puzzle-based FPS and Halo is still a great Action-based FPS. Either way you wanna slice it, they are both awesome games, its just too bad you don't share that view.
PS. What ever happened to Danger (or whoever it was) adding me to XBL?
7 comments:
See, the interesting thing is that you say it is my loss if I don't like Halo, but if I say another comment about not liking it, you'll try to convince me again.
You're arguing fucking preferences with me. I don't care for Halo. Don't care for the community. I can live without the experience.
And I never, EVER, buy into the additional 'storyline' products derived from a video game license. I never watched the Super Mario Bros. Supershow. I would never buy the Legend of Zelda television show on DVD (while people at IGN would have shoveled cash for the priviledge to watch it). I don't like extra stuff. I play games to have fun playing games. I want to enjoy the story while playing the game. I do not - however - care about buying additional stories/novels/movies/etc to pad the experience.
Now, while I'm not going to debate your preferences...I would like to point out some factual errors in your points...
"If Microsoft was to produce a game that wasn't in Bungie's Halo cannon, there would be millions of pissed off fans and the game would likely to be a huge flop. I don't think Microsoft is that stupid."
Bungie doesn't own the rights to the franchise anymore. Microsoft can shit on the franchise and serve it on a giant platter, and it is there call.
Furthermore, you say it would have to coincide with Bungie canon. This assumes two things:
1. That somewhere, Bungie has some sort of giant tome that includes everything that ever was, is, and ever will be in the Halo universe. No writer ever crafts every insignificant detail of their story unless it is relevant for publishing.
2. Just because someone owns the rights to something, doesn't mean they cannot fuck it up. Look at the show Heroes. Tim Kring has been showrunner since Day One, but that hasn't stopped its steadily quickening downward spiral. It has gotten to point where they are actually retconning details from the story after going on for less than three full seasons. Marvel Comics retcons stuff after 20 years. After less than 3, Tim Kring (and Co.) fucked up big time.
3. You assume that people wont still buy Halo because it is Halo. Since Halo has made three consecutively good games, its prestige is enough to carry it through one poorly managed release. It happens all the time in video games.
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Also, I like how the Halo story is incredibly similar to Samus' origin story. Interesting that she's been around for about 20 years while Halo has been around for less than a decade. It is almost as if Halo is reusing ideas that have been around for a while (heck, even Metroid was reusing ideas that have been around for a while, but it was the first in a long line of video games).
Also, Ms. PacMan is Pac Man with a bow. She's not a character so much as a graphic.
And no, Samus doesn't get points because she is female. She gets points because her creation/existence as a video game character was a bigger deal than Master Chief.
And I wouldn't call HL2 a puzzle-based FPS. Have you played Episode 2? Christ. With that final gun battle, I thought I was going to shit my pants. I still maintain that the Half-Life single player experience is greater than the Halo single player experience. I feel more at jeopardy playing Half-Life. It feels like my life is actually in danger, and you feel largely insignificant (as if you are being driven to significant action through the guiding hand of the G-Man). Halo...you feel invincible. Is there even fall damage in Halo? Also, I've never liked the "hide and heal" aspect of some games. I don't think every protagonist should be Wolverine.
I’m not going to try & convince you, you’re pretty seeded in your ways & nothing short of a miracle could shift your paradigm. We’re not arguing, we’re discussing, no need to bring in vile language.
I say that you not liking Halo is your loss because it is. Take this example; I never used to like Chinese or Indian food. Over the past year, my tastes in cuisines have changed tremendously. Up until this September, I wouldn’t touch Indian food. Then my boss heavily suggested I try it (giving very good points as to why I should), so I did.
Guess what? I freaking loved it (chicken korma). Now I love Indian food & eat it all the time. I didn’t like it before, but now I love it. Would I be so stubborn as to say I wasn’t missing out in the past because I didn’t like it? No. I was totally missing out, this food rocks. Just because you don’t like something that is great, doesn’t mean you’re not missing out.
I know damn well Bungie doesn’t own Halo anymore, & I believe I said that in my post. But Halo is the Xbox flagship game, and they know it. Microsoft not working with Bungie to keep the spirit of Halo burning would be like Nintendo making a Mario World games where Mario is Russian & an auto mechanic instead of a plumber. Yes, it is possible for Microsoft to shit on Halo, but it isn’t very likely.
Bungie may not have a tomb of every Halo detail (although there are rumors of a Halo Bible), but the story is always developing & growing. I just got the 6th novel last Wednesday. I don’t think the premise for this book existed when Halo: CE was being made.
If Microsoft was to say, sell the Halo franchise to someone else, someone who didn’t care to work with its creator to keep making it great, then (new) Halo would die. Sure, they’d get one good/ok selling game out of it, but after the fans see how the screwed the pooch, the next one would sell for crap.
Yes, everyone reuses ideas. Video games, cars, cell phones, books, etc. If everything was an original idea, we probably would have run out of ideas a long time ago. Halo uses the idea of a military super solider & gives it their own, awesome spin to it.
And Halo doesn’t really copy anything from Metroid. The stories have similarities, but I wouldn’t say one copies the other. It would be like saying Golden Eye copies Doom because they both have pistols.
Ms Pac Man was a character. Not much of one, but remember the time. You could say MC & Samus are just graphics too. She had a husband, for starters…. But I’m not diving into this.
No, Samus’ existence isn’t a bigger deal than MC. The Spartans are the last hope for humanity. They were created with purpose. Samus got a gift from aliens to go get revenge on the other aliens that killed her family (by the sounds of things). Humanity as a whole doesn’t seem to be at risk here. Human planets aren’t jeopardized.
I have played HL2-E2, but I have yet to finish. HL series has much less action than Halo. Not puzzle based? Open you eyes! How many times did you have to do the see-saw puzzle? The battles (for me, so far) have been relatively small. Four or five guys or so attack at once. Yeah, it fits well with the story (and granted in HL2 there was some big strider battles) but for the most part, the action isn’t overly intense.
I feel in jeopardy playing HL as well, but from memory, when you switch a weapon, it auto reloads, which is odd. I agree “hide & heal” sucks, and that one thing I miss from Halo: CE: there were auto recharging shields, but non recharging health. I must say though, most games are flawed like this: you can take ump-teen bullets and half a grenade blast, but picking up a first aid kit makes everything better. Weird.
And if you feel invincible playing halo, bump up the difficulty. Any gamer with 2 thumbs should be able to play it on easy/normal. Try legendary (and add skulls… try it MYTHIC, I dare you.) difficulty, you won’t feel so invincible. In fact, you’ll be wishing the Freeman was there, cause he doesn’t seem to die as much.
One last comment, something the old manager of EB Games in town told me (he recently moved out west). Halo is a lot like Super Smash Bros. now before you get too steamed over that, let me explain.
Both games can be enjoyed on many levels. You can just pick up and play. You don’t need to be good to have fun. Then there are people who are a little better, in SSB, they begin to learn more moves and get better at moving around instead of just button mashing, maybe using items. In Halo, they begin picking up other weapons, using vehicles. Then you can progress to know how many shots with a weapon you need to make a kill, or learning good SSB combo. Above that still, are your 5-star Generals who can react to any situations, and the people in SSB who can fight so well you can never hit them.
Both games can be played (and played in a fun manner) by anybody. They have learning curves that anyone can hop on and still have fun at any point along it. Counter point” Counter Strike. When you begin playing, you either get good fast, or die more than is enjoyable.
Ha.
You can only really make the argument that you're missing out once you know you actually enjoy it.
I could also be missing out on the experience of free fall from a plane. However, I'm terrified of falling from great heights and dying, so I wont try parachuting, but I certainly don't miss it just because I haven't tried it.
The concept of "missing out" on something awesome is ridiculous, because I cannot miss something I've never enjoyed in the first place.
I wasn't talking about in-game context when I said Samus' existence was more important than Master Chief's. I was talking about culturally. Samus was an early video game character, and one of the first female protagonists (in a console game at least). Master Chief arrived into the world alongside Gordon Freeman, the guy from Doom, the guy from Heretic, Sgt. Cortez, etc, etc, etc. The marketplace has become crowded by the gruff Space marine type. Samus was one of the first, and her reveal as a woman caught the world by surprise. Separate yourself from the game reality for a second to realize what I'm talking about.
Halo is not the greatest game ever. Not by a long shot. It provides a good experience. Multiplayer (although I hate the type of person that plays most online shooters) and single player are adequate.
I'm never going to fall in love with Halo like you have. I only need a game to be entertaining while I'm playing it. I don't need to get so obsessed with the universe that I start buying the books or - worse yet - writing fan fiction.
Also, Half-Life 2 isn't a puzzle shooter. It is a shooter that has puzzles.
Don't you remember breaching the prison in Half-Life 2? Or the administrative building for the Combine? And then the Strider attack that followed?
And seriously. You haven't finished it! You are wasting your life away not completing HL2:EP2. The ending battle is unbelievably intense, and so incredibly life threatening. There are about a million ways to die and I had trouble with it on one of the easier difficulties.
One final note, unless you've played the Metroid games and finished all of the Half-Life series, you really need to stop making story-based references to them in your criticisms. It is unjustified criticism of matters you know nothing about.
I only say that I don't need Halo. It is an experience I can survive without.
I see your point about Samus, but I think you’re giving it a little too much credit.
I never said Halo was the greatest game ever. Its certainly my favourite though, seeing as its given me countless hours of entertainment. I may be borderline obsessed, but not so much with the universe as the game. I like the books because… it’s a good story! It gives me something to do other than TV/porn/video games. Its my way of not being a totall book-a-phobe. And I don’t write fan fiction, just for the record.
No, HL2 isn’t a puzzle shooter. Why would any game be a puzzle shooter? The concept of shooting puzzle sounds retarded, like some last ditch effort at a game by Nintendo.
It’s puzzle-based. The use of their physics engine plays a very heavy role in the game play whereas in Halo; well lets be honest, the only thing Halo needs a physics engine for is falling to your death.
The point is that there are a lot of puzzles in HL2, even if they are traps to burn zombies (love the screams). Halo is based on intense action (especially on the higher difficulty settings). Yes HL2 has good action as well, but if you compare action/hours, Halo wins. The action is denser throughout the game.
Ok, so I have yet to finish it (actually, I need to replay all of EP2 now that I have my new computer & didn’t save any game files). You’re getting more worked up over me half finishing EP2 than I do over you saying Halo sucks.
I tell you whenever I make a story reference (especially Metroid) that I have only played the SENS version or what have you. I can make very decent HL2 references considering I’ve played 90% of the game whereas you shoot your mouth off saying that the Halo novels aren’t cannon. You’re the one needing to watch your criticisms. Liam will vouch for me when I say Halo has more action & much more (re)playability.
Unless you are going to let me borrow your Wii to play Metroid, I am more than likely never going to play it, simply because I can’t justify spend the money on the console for its games. The utility returned to me from such a purchase could never match that of Halo to me (which is the reason I bought a 360). It’s the same reason I cant justify $400 on a PS3. $200 on a PS3? Yes, mostly because it has the blu-ray player & LBP.
I also picked of Half Life last week for $0.98 & so far I’m half way done. It’s a pretty decent game, but has a few annoyances.
Wasting my life not playing HL2:EP2? This combine with all of your hard-ons for a dystopian future has me worried. Loving slavery & imprisonment this much (or at all, really) isn’t healthy. I think its time we have an intervention…
Half-Life 2 has an entertaining story. I enjoy it.
I don't really care if Liam vouches for you about more action/replayability in Halo. That may be the case, but I don't prefer that. Half-Life 2 seems like your in the thick of it more, because it isn't always shooting. I like to think that my protagonist would be dead after 12 consecutive hours of being shot at. Half-Life 2 has periods in between that allow you to appreciate the atmosphere and get into the story, which I enjoy thoroughly. At the start of Half Life 2: Episode 1, I stood in the City 17 square for 15 minutes just to fully appreciate the entirety of Dr. Breen's newscast over the cities video screens.
Also, the Source engine has generated something like 4 of the most popular on-line games (Counter Strike, TF2, Left for Dead, and Day of Defeat). So...we're I'd say Half-Life 2 may not have much replay unto itself (because it doesn't have good multiplayer) but the commercial mods (and even the user mods) cannot be beaten by the Halo experience. People have done some freaky shit with the Source engine...Halo provides none of that freedom. Play MINERVA: Metastasis, an HL2 single player mod if you want to enjoy an excellent story with a perfect atmosphere.
And how is saying the Halo novels aren't canon (one n, not two, that is referring to the cannon that shoots cannonballs) shooting my mouth off? Normally, novels are borderline fan fiction. If a game developer decides to axe something down the line, they do.
Captain N was a TV show involving Nintendo characters. It was sanctioned by Nintendo. It had very odd depictions of Ridley and Kraid. These were not canon.
My point is that the items which we can call the peripheral media (i.e., not the game proper) can always be negated or changed to accomodate the main franchise.
Unless you are going to let me borrow your 360 to play Halo, I am more than likely never going to play it, simply because I can’t justify spending the money on the console for its games.
Halo is by no means a bad product. It just isn't worth it for me. And I refuse to believe/care whether I'm missing out or not.
I don't think it was me who was supposed to add you to XBL, seeing as how I don't (and probably won't in the foreseeable future) have an XBL subscription.
I don't have a 360 either, but I do have the original Xbox. We used to do 8 player Halo all the time with my old residents.
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