This post is a reply to the following article from Imprint, as well as comments from Tingles blog.
I don’t want to start a fight either. I just want you to know you are wrong.
The writer, if he can be called that, was trying to make a point. Obviously he wants to be a writer for some form of media, but using that type of language in a newspaper is totally unacceptable. I am completely certain that he could express his same opinion without dumping a load in a twat. If he was any kind of writer at all, he wouldn’t have to use slang & profanity to express his opinion. Using the language he did makes sense only if you are chatting about this on MSN.
You make it sound like the audience the article was “written for” is a bunch of immature grade 7ers, who still giggle when their teacher or parents say “buns.” This school is filled with intelligent people.
If people want to try out writing, then the Imprint is great. But still being a newspaper, it should be presented as a newspaper. If they want to explore their writing styles in a place that they can do that without getting ridiculously harassed for it, at least when it comes to articles with the stated derogatory terms, the writer can easily do so without going public about it. Journals, scrap pieces of paper, or even…. *drum roll please* a BLOG! Golly gee, Batman, I never would have guessed that.
A blog allows for a writer to “publicly” give opinions with whatever language, slang, or profanity they want. Why? Because it is not a formal (aka professional) form of media that is distributed to the public. Yes, the public has access to it if they wish (just like newspaper), but is informal.
You say we’re using opinion as fact against another opinion, but we’re not. Its not my opinion that the term ‘twat’ is derogatory and shouldn’t be used in public media. Ever hear CNN or Global say twat on TV or have it on their website? And don’t try telling me that our newspaper is for expressive people, poets, and other ‘creative’ people. It’s a fucking newspaper. You want to read that type of thing? Try MathNews, as an example. It’s a great read, available to the public, full of insulting content (to some), yet is not a newspaper.
Maybe I shouldn’t be so harsh, but then again, maybe Mr. Myers shouldn’t be retarded and publish his expressive writing in the university’s newspaper. It is this sort of thing that can deteriorate the school’s reputation as producers of professional persons. However, he is not entirely at fault for this “outrage.” Imprint itself is to blame for letting this language slip by the editors. That within itself looks bad.
I do see where you are coming from, however. I agree he should be entitled to write what he wants, but in a professional world, that type of thing needs to stick to blogs and the like. If you want to call my character bad, blame professional writing (and the fact that our school newspaper is still a newspaper, and thus, formal) instead of me.
As for you being very, very well educated, I would like to say this without passing any judgment (note: However, this being a blog and informal, I could pass judgment if I so desired.). It doesn’t matter how well educated one is nor whether or not one has a degree. An education does not imply intelligence.
31 comments:
before i start, what is with you consistently trying to call me stupid? attack the argument, not the person, especially when she is clearly not stupid.
i'm not going to respond to much of what you said because it's your opinion and i respect that. you're sort of arguing a point that i wasn't trying to make but that's okay. you're mad about the article and that's fine, as i've said before. (by the way, did you laugh when someone said "buns" when you were 12 years old? that was by far my favourite part!) the article, i felt, portrayed stuff that imprint doesn't usually publish. every article written in imprint is so peppy and says things like, "if you have a rash on your penis, DON'T WORRY!" and then rattles off some advice. which is great. honestly, advice is good. but this guy's article gave the topic of losing one's virginity a completely different angle, one that really should be examined because not everyone's first experience is like that. and the language, i think, was used for shock factor, and i believe that it worked in terms of its purpose. yes, i understand that it is a professional newspaper and that you don't approve of using that kind of language in a professional media. I UNDERSTAND. at the same time, i do think that he did what he had to do to make his point, and i commend him for that.
i'm sorry for getting so involved - i didn't know that you and your girlfriend would get so utterly angry over it. i'm just trying to show you a different side. it's always good to hear different sides, right?
ps. i think i know you.
1. I didn't call you stupid.
2. Its not that I don't approve, its more so that the university has a reputation which articles like that have been deteriorating.
3. Shock factor, yes. Needed, no... especially for a community as intelligent as UW.
4. No I didn't laugh at "buns" when I was 12, that was put it for "shock value."
5. Yes, the Imprint has been publishing more than one article with this type of slang. We've only brought this one to attention because it is especially bad.
6. The Imprint does not give good advice. If I have a rash on my penis, I AM going to worry. In fact, I'm going to worry so much, I just may go to the doctor.
7. If you still don't see my point, which is not opinion but fact, go dump a load in your twat.
(Now was that "shock factor" really need? I didn't think so either.)
number 6 was priceless. i was being sarcastic when i talked about the advice part. i get your point, but i think you still don't get mine. anyway, that's ok.
What exactly was your point? Your comments on Tingles blog shifted in opinion.
Let the record show that I never said Travis Myers is not entitled to his opinion OR freedom of expression.
my point was that you are being a little too harsh towards someone that is expressing his opinion the way he wants in an editorial-like article. i understand that you don't like the language and that you think it brings down the quality of the newspaper, but the newspaper never established any rules against that. he did what he wanted and that's allowed. my comments didn't shift in opinion, although i did try to clarify myself because you were taking things the wrong way. i have my own problems with the article, but they're not the same as yours. in the other post, she said something about how losing one's virginity should not be represented in that manner and that's one of the things that got me. some people do go through shit like that and there's nothing wrong with writing about it.
"And don’t try telling me that our newspaper is for expressive people, poets, and other ‘creative’ people. It’s a fucking newspaper."
Damn straight, what a fucking asshole that Mr. Myers is. Expressing his own opinion, what the fuck does he think this is the opinions section?
Key word in your comment: "editorial-like."
The reason I'm being harsh is not because i don't like the language, thats perfectly fine. Its about WHERE the language is.
I have no issue with the topic. The topic in the paper is fine. The language is fine, just not in the paper.
Its not the quality of the newspaper I care about. Its the quality of the reputation on the university I am attending as well as the fact I'm paying for stupid, politically incorrect newspaper.
Lets do an example. Lets say I am a racist person who thinks all blacks and Jews should die (Which I am NOT, for the record). I would then have the freedom to write about how I feel about said topic. There is a slight chance my topic would make it into a newspaper (merely based on the focus of the article), even though I am entitled to it.
But, lets say my article does make it in. Then, if my article was presented in the same fashion that the article in reference was written, it would probably be shredded & burned.
Once again, for the record, I am NOT racist, that was merely an example.
I will also state once more that I think Myers is entitled to his opinion (which I have not commented on) and should be allowed to express it however he wants. No problem. The issue arises when it is expressed how he wants in a place that has no room for those types of expressions.
*sigh* Did you actually read the article? Did you actually read all of my comments, explaining this entire thing?
I have NO PROBLEM with his opinion.
PS, I never passed judgment on Myers character.
Yes I did read the article, and yes, unfortunately, I did read all of your comments. Your comments are a very painful read, but I endured.
Why were they painful?
just out of curiousity, why isn't there any place for his opinion? the jews and blacks racism thing would probably hurt, at the very least, jews and blacks. who is this hurting? his opinion isn't one that restricts people. it isn't one that segregates people. in fact, it just informs. a LOT of people go through this. i know you're going to say that a lot of people are racist or whatever, but that's not what i mean. what i mean is that this is something that a lot of people are thinking about and wondering about and going through right now. it's an issue. it's a problem. yes, it's a newspaper, but it's targeted to people of our age group and this is a big issue in our age group. i don't see why this is not the place for him to express that.
"I will also state once more that I think Myers is entitled to his opinion (which I have not commented on) and should be allowed to express it however he wants. No problem. The issue arises when it is expressed how he wants in a place that has no room for those types of expressions."
That is a total contradiction. He can express it however he wants and he can't express it however he wants. Awesome.
*sigh* I never said there was no place for his opinion. I welcome his opinion IN the newspaper, only when it is presented with more of a professional style. Please understand that.
If he wants to use derogatory language when expressing himself, he should start a blog or get start his own paper.
Are you really that half-witted that you can't see my point?
Why should he have to start his own paper because you do not like his style of writing? Why don't you start your own paper if you don't like his style of writing?
If you feel the Imprint is going down the tubes why don't you either write for it yourself (I may regret this), or show you lack of support by getting a refund?
"Are you really that half-witted that you can't see my point?"
Who is this directed at?
are you really that stupid that you constantly feel the need to attack the person giving the argument rather than argue with something that makes sense? please do not ever go to law school.
I GET YOUR POINT, as i have stated repeatedly. i'm asking you to clarify, because although i get your point, it's sort of... not making any sense. ever. derogatory language is allowed. this is not a professional paper. the paper has no rules against language of this sort. so why are you complaining about the article? he did what he wanted to. he's allowed to do that. and, by the way, someone did start their own paper in which to use derogatory language when expressing themselves. it's called imprint.
Directed at both, but more you you, Mr. Ellis.
Mr. E, why are my comments so painful to read? You have not yet answered that. Also, its not a contradiction. I'm assuming you swear, right? You probably have to problem using profanity. Would you swear to your boss or your grandmother? Probably not.
I'm not going to start my own paper because I can express my opinions on my blog. He can get a blog too. But please, tell me how I get my $3.30 back from Imprint, nothing would make me happier.
Sanya, you have not asked me to clarify. Even if you did, it cant really get any clearer.
If the Imprint was created with no rules on profanity & derogatory language, they why does it represent such a highly respected institution as UW? And don't tell me that it doesn't because every student pays fees for it.
To clarify, I disprove of the terms "dumping a load in her twat" and "googling tits to jerk off too" in a public newspaper. MSN is a different story, & I don't really care.
Just let me have my $3.30 back, & I will be happy.
PS. Mr. E, Whats the Northlake area like? good rent?
you can get a refund. your points can't get any clearer because they're silly. i'm sorry you don't like tits and twats.
My points aren't silly, don't use derogatory language in a newspaper (even Imprint).
I yet again, I never said I have against those terms, just IN A NEWSPAPER (regardless of it being a school paper). Tits & twats are 2 of the best things out there (note yet again that this isn't formal media).
tru dat, gangsta. but this isn't cnn. imprint is not a professional newspaper.
It still represents the university, which is professional. Imprint does come across as a professional paper in every other aspect in my mind. If you were to pick one up for the first time I'm sure you would think it is.
side note: MathNews isn't professional and as far as I know, we don't pay for it either.
mathnews is paid for by the fees math students pay. aren't you a mathie? a cs student?
i'm glad you think so highly of our school. if you stop thinking about it for a second, we're still just a bunch of horny kids and this is the way we speak. it will happen. i'm not saying lower your standards. you should never do that. but like i said before, your harsh words have hurt me more than reading anything about anyone dumping anything in anyone's twat.
the university is a good school. not to worry, i don't think faculty recommendation letters mention any words like that, or anything to that effect. that's the professional part. we're allowed to be us otherwise.
I wasn't sure if MathNews was paid for by us of not. Still, it isn't "marketed" as a newspaper.
We aren't all horny kids. In fact, most of us aren't even kids. That's not to say I'm not horny, cause I am (not now), but don't generalize.
I'm sorry my words hurt you. But from what I said, its ok, because this is an non-professional blog.
The Imprint, in some way, represents UW though, which is where the issue lies.
the imprint has won multiple awards for being an amazing campus newspaper, and it has always had articles like this. :) don't be angry about this article. i know it's not what everyone wants to hear but that's always going to happen. i'm sorry it offended you so much.
Yes, I do swear sometimes, and no I don't really have a problem with people swearing a bit (such as in the article). Would I swear to my boss? Probably not, but not everyone has the same opinions about these things as me. I am aware of others opinions, despite what you may think.
Why are you comments painful? I'll try and highlight a few things.
"You say we’re using opinion as fact against another opinion, but we’re not. Its not my opinion that the term ‘twat’ is derogatory and shouldn’t be used in public media. Ever hear CNN or Global say twat on TV or have it on their website?"
It is still your opinion it just means others agree.
Also stop comparing the Imprint to CNN or Global, it's retarded.
You insulted mathNEWS, how dare you. Calling it some kind of second rate publication, what kind of math student are you. mathNEWS isn't just a NEWSpaper it is thee newspaper.
Oh wait, ok so if Imprint started printing on regular copy paper and used just one staple in the corner they could say whatever they wanted! And they would also save on publication costs, double bonus!
Oh and stop going on about how highly perceived UW is and how intelligent the students all are. It's annoying.
As for your refund, your too little too late this term, but there is hope for future terms!
"The following incidental fees must be paid with your tuition, but they are refundable on request from the organizations below during the first three weeks of lectures each term.
Imprint $3.30
Imprint is the only non-faculty related student newspaper on campus. Requests for refunds should be directed to the Imprint office in the SLC." Source: http://feds.ca/docs_incidental
Yours truly,
Mr. E. (fuck that makes me sound so god damn badass)
P.S. Did you try and look up my location on facebook to intimidate me? That is so fucking clever, you are truly a master of the internets.
pwned.
Not Pwned. Also lacks originality with respect to this discussion.
I am also aware of opinions, even considering you can’t read.
Twat being derogatory isn’t opinion.
Replace CNN with whatever the Waterloo city paper is.
I did not insult MathNEWS. I love mathNEWS, especially prfoQuotes.
Not all UW students are intelligent.
Thanks for the refund info.
Mr. E can also make you sound like a villain on sesame street.
I used 411.ca. I’m surprised it actually worked.
PS. If in fact this is just my opinion and not fact, which you seem sure of, then why are you contradicting yourself and bashing my “opinions?” This conversation is over.
My oh my... 29 rapidfire comments. You did wake some hornets, didn't you?
It doesn't seem all that tough, really.
If you want to start a meaningful, intellectual discussion (or contribute to one), use proper, non-inflammatory language. I think that that is what every opinion article and opinion section in the newspaper should aspire to - forwarding the dialogue on a given issue.
It seems only reasonable to use proper, clear language. It could only manage to increase the value and accuracy of one's insights into an issue.
Proper, mature language creates intellectual debate. Throwing around euphanisms and trashy language only serves to clutter an issue and intimidate others.
So, while he might indeed have fully been within his rights to publish a story like that; it is hardly an effective article in even an "Opinion" section. I think that Imprint should continually strive to create debate and dialoge between various groups. Such a goal is not served by the type of article being commented on here.
This is all ridiculous. We're debating something that was published in a university newspaper. This happened in a school. There is nothing professional about the imprint and if we want that changed then we will probably live in disappointment. I have no faith in university newspapers as I have only been disappointed by all the articles about residence woes, university lawsuits and how the campus is riddled with drugs. I suggest a boycott on the imprint and that we all stick to the Waterloo Record.
By the way Wolfgang are you in Stratford for Christmas, it's been too long.
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